Denise Chaila and Rejjie Snow were not on my list of topics to be discussed when I went to meet Ivana Bacik outside Leinster House on a sunny April afternoon. But the newly appointed leader of the Labour Party was only too ready to sing their praises.\u00a0<\/p>\n
She had caught Denise\u2019s acclaimed 3Olympia Theatre<\/a> headline show a couple of weeks previously \u2013 \u201cAbsolutely brilliant,\u201d she enthused \u2013\u00a0and was already in possession of tickets to see Rejjie Snow on April 12th. I thought of asking her to do a review for Hot Press I’d imagine she has more\u00a0pressing\u00a0things on her mind right now.<\/p>\n Ivana Bacik has been leader of the Labour Party<\/a> \u2013 she is just the 14th since its formation in Clonmel, Co. Tipperary in 1912 by James Connolly, James Larkin and William O\u2019Brien \u2013 for two weeks now. It is a job she must have dreamed about all her life. And, after a long, and sometimes strange trip, her accession to it came about in circumstances that were both sudden and dramatic.<\/p>\n Ivana has been involved in politics since her student days. She was a key figure to a generation of young Irish students when, as President of the Students\u2019 Union in Trinity College, she campaigned vocally for contraceptive and abortion rights for Irish women. She had a case taken against her by the anti-choice lobbyists SPUC \u2013 who had been responsible for the insertion of the now notorious 8th Amendment<\/a> to the Constitution \u2013 for supplying abortion information to students at a time when women were being relentlessly pressurised and targeted on the issue by right-wing activists.\u00a0<\/p>\n Ivana faced a potential stint in jail, but she screwed her courage to the sticking post and, with the help of the future President of Ireland Mary Robinson<\/a>, fought the case in the European Court of Justice. Eventually, SPUC were vanquished and Bacik could breathe easily at night again. And sleep.\u00a0The stand she took was vital, sowing the original seeds of the campaign that would later remove the brutally ill-conceived and coercive 8th Amendment from the constitution in 2018.\u00a0<\/p>\n That auspicious start inspired her to run for the Senate, in the Trinity College constituency. She fell short in 1997 and 2002, but was eventually elected in 2007. She subsequently ran for election to the D\u00e1il and to the European Parliament unsuccessfully, but consistently retained her position in the Senate representing Trinity alumni. Then, in July of last year, history beckoned. The former Fine Gael Minister Eoghan Murphy decided to resign his seat in Dublin South-East (now Dublin Bay South). It is an area in which Ivana Bacik grew up and lives. She was selected to run for Labour.<\/a><\/p>\n Ivana Bacik received over 30% of first preferences. On the other hand, Labour continued to do badly in the polls, running in or around the 4% to 5% mark. There is no doubt\u00a0that party leader Alan Kelly<\/a> was hamstrung by the effects of the pandemic, but the feeling was growing within Labour that, if things were allowed to remain that way, then at least some of the sitting TDs might lose their seats in any upcoming election. Members of the parliamentary party decided that a change of leader was needed.<\/p>\n All of the other potential contenders rowed in behind Ivana Bacik. She was duly elected leader of the Labour Party. The question now is: can she do what is necessary to revive the fortunes of the party in time for the next general election? Given where Labour currently stands, it is a mighty challenge.\u00a0<\/p>\n ABORTION LEGISLATION REVIEW<\/strong><\/p>\n We begin by talking about abortion. Many in Irish political life joined in the campaign only in its final stages, when they saw where the momentum was heading. Indeed, in the North,\u00a0as recently as 2021, Sinn F\u00e9in failed to\u00a0vote against a DUP bill designed to outlaw abortions in cases of\u00a0\u2018non-fatal disabilities\u2019, leading to accusations that they were speaking out of both sides of their\u00a0mouth on the issue. Meanwhile, whatever impression their leaders might like to give now, Fianna F\u00e1il and Fine Gael were both badly split on the issue, and ultimately out of step with voters. In contrast, Ivana Bacik had been active on abortion rights since the 1980s.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cI was active on that issue for many years,\u201d she nods. \u201cWhen you\u2019re going through those decades, you don\u2019t know how it\u2019ll turn out. I was just so heart-warmed to see the groundswell of support in 2018. Also, to see the new generation of\u00a0women in action, because for a long time, small numbers of my generation were the only visible pro-choice group taking to the streets in Ireland up until the late \u201880s. It was great to be a part of the 2018 campaign.<\/p>\n \u201cI was on the National Executive of \u2018Together For Yes\u2019, and we\u2019d learned so much from Marriage Equality and other campaigns,\u201d she continues, referencing the successful landmark 2015 vote Constitutional change. \u201cIt\u2019s easy to say that retrospectively, but when we were in it, right until the end, we still couldn\u2019t be sure we would win through on Repeal. We certainly didn\u2019t think that we\u2019d get such a big majority. You never know with a referendum because it can turn very quickly. Things can happen in the last week that can change the outcome.\u201d<\/p>\n Four years on, The National Women\u2019s Council<\/a> and the Abortion Working Group are still advocating for legal changes that will address barriers to abortion healthcare and ensure equitable access. The list of hospitals not carrying out the appropriate services is long, the effect of which is that those in a less privileged economic bracket \u2013 including migrants, those with disabilities and people from minority ethnic backgrounds \u2013 experience real difficulties accessing abortion<\/a> in Ireland.\u00a0<\/p>\n The current rules specifying a three-day waiting time, along with a 12-week limit on when abortions can be carried out, often mean that by the time a person realises they\u2019re pregnant, it\u2019s too late. As a result, the country now faces another defining moment as the operation of the Health Act 2018 comes up for review.<\/p>\n \u201cAs it happens, I\u2019ve just finished Labour\u2019s submission to the abortion legislation review,\u201d Ivana Bacik says. \u201cWe recommend that the Minister for Health abolish the three-day waiting period, revise the 12-week limit, and the definition of fatal foetal abnormality, as well as take out some of the onerous restrictions for women\u2019s access to healthcare. I\u2019ve included a part about the lack of geographical coverage. I\u2019ve worked with the Irish Family Planning Association and it\u2019s clear that there\u2019s still gaps in the service, but there was a seismic shift all the same.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cFor somebody my age with teenage daughters, to be in a position now where we\u2019re having a discussion about how we can improve reproductive healthcare is amazing. We have abortion, it\u2019s legal and the referendum was won by a majority vote. But what we also pushed for in 2018 was safe access zones. There\u2019s a lot of unnecessary barriers to dismantle.<\/p>\n \u201cThe other issue is that of class,\u201d she adds. \u201cAbortion is always a class issue as well as a gender one. The most desperate women and girls who called me when I was 21, in the students union of\u00a0\u201989, were those who couldn\u2019t afford to travel to England. They didn\u2019t have the supports needed. Economic rights are a key point in reforming the law. The last bill I did in the Seanad before I was elected to the D\u00e1il was to do with Reproductive Healthcare Leave. That would enable a woman who\u2019s had an early miscarriage to avail of 20 paid days leave, or any employee of any gender who needs to take time off work for reproductive healthcare reasons such as an abortion or IVF. We actually have support from the government, so we\u2019re going to push for that now.\u201d<\/p>\n Ireland has also been criticised for its abysmal lack of healthcare for trans people<\/a>.<\/p>\n \u201cThe first thing to do for the trans community is to fund adequate services,\u201d she\u00a0says emphatically. \u201cLabour pushed\u00a0really hard\u00a0for the Gender Recognition Act in 2015.\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n Ivana mentions working with Dr Lydia Foy, whose pioneering case seeking a new birth certificate and legal recognition for her female gender\u00a0paved the way for that legislation.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cThings have already moved on,\u201d she adds, \u201cbut for its time, that law was very progressive. It\u2019s not so much legislative change that\u2019s needed right now as actual resourcing of services. Although health services are important, it\u2019s also about education, especially the issue of transphobic and homophobic bullying. There\u2019s a lot to do beyond Marriage Equality on the ground and in schools. The Gender Equality Committee is looking at education programmes which would allow schools to tackle RSE and LGBT issues on a discretionary basis. So healthcare and education are probably the two key areas.\u201d<\/p>\n VAST BILLION-DOLLAR BUSINESS<\/strong><\/p>\n Ivana Bacik, and indeed the Labour Party generally, have campaigned strongly against the Sisters of Charity or their proxies having any involvement in the National Maternity Hospital<\/a>.\u00a0It is Labour Party policy that full public ownership of the hospital is the only viable solution to the current impasse. She takes a similar view in relation to the involvement of religious interests in education.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019ve always believed in the need to separate Church and State in the provision of education,\u201d she says. \u201cOne of the achievements I\u2019m most proud of is the establishment of the first multi-denomination school in Ireland that came from a Catholic school, under the transfer of patronage model. It\u2019s the successful and thriving Dublin 8 school in Rialto. The huge problem is that the Catholic Church or religious orders still own the vast bulk of school buildings and premises. The State funds the teachers and pays the maintenance but there\u2019s no ownership of the buildings.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cThere\u2019s still a battle going on about the religious orders not paying the amount they owed for the unpaid redress,\u201d she adds.\u00a0\u201cI was a barrister for many years and I used to represent survivors of abuse in industrial schools, so I know the system from the inside. It\u2019s just so difficult to try and extract the money out of the religious orders. They\u2019re still sitting on huge tracts of land and buildings. That\u2019s a really difficult issue. I was brought up Catholic myself but I think I might be the first Oireachtas member to be a card-carrying atheist!\u201d\u00a0<\/p>\n There is one issue on which Ivana has taken a position, which some interests see as being too\u00a0close to the Church and to the religious orders. In November 2019, she spoke at a conference run by Ruhama<\/a>, an Irish NGO which was set up by religious orders. The charity aims to \u2018support\u2019 women who have been affected by \u2018prostitution and sex trafficking\u2019, but the Sex Workers Alliance of Ireland (SWAI)<\/a> have accused the group of having a moralistic and judgemental take on the sex trade. Ruhama often insist that sex work is an industry solely based on coercion and trafficking, rather than a choice by someone with agency.<\/p>\n \u201cLook, I\u2019ve seen the critiques of Ruhama,\u201d Ivana says. \u201cIt\u2019s interesting, because for a long time in Ireland, the Church and religious orders were the shadow welfare state. For generations, Ireland has been seen to outsource the care of vulnerable populations to the religious. While I\u2019m always very critical of religious orders, particularly when I see the effects of survivors of abuse represented, it was a State failing. The state handed that responsibility over, and continues to do it. There\u2019s some really good work being done by religious orders, and I would always acknowledge that too. The Dominican convent in Wicklow is housing Afghan refugees. A lot of the organisations that are doing very important work like Vincent de Paul, Tr\u00f3caire and the Immigrant Council have some religious background to their setting up, establishment or funding. I favour a secular State but unfortunately, that\u2019s Irish history, that\u2019s our legacy.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cHaving said all that,\u201d she says, \u201cI happen to support the view of prostitution as exploitation. I\u2019ve represented women being charged with offences, I\u2019ve fought really hard to decriminalise women selling sex on the street, but I absolutely stand over the Nordic Model that criminalises the purchaser of sex. Let me just say why. I know there\u2019s a whole narrative that this is \u2018sex work\u2019 and so on, but the trade union movement and feminist NGOs as well as Ruhama all joined the Turn Off The Red Light campaign based on the evidence before us. I was on the Justice Committee which took evidence from both sides, including women who were engaged in the sex trade as well as survivors of sex trade.<\/p>\n \u201cThe evidence before us was that at least 80% of those in the sex trade are migrant women from disadvantaged backgrounds who have been coerced or trafficked into selling sex. To say it\u2019s a free choice and that women should be able to sell their bodies if they wish to \u2014 and it is predominantly women, and it\u2019s always men who buy \u2014 is a very liberal argument to me. I used to believe it myself by the way. When I was in my twenties, that was my view of prostitution but I changed my view over the years.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cOn the Justice Committee, we heard from those who said, \u2018This is my choice\u2019 but for me, as a socialist, it\u2019s about looking at the collective. It\u2019s about looking at the gendered and structured context. The sex trade is a vast, billion-dollar business worldwide. I sometimes think that point is lost on those who are left-wing and argue to legalise sex work. It\u2019s a neo-liberal argument that says, \u2018Let people be free to trade bodies as commodities\u2019. I\u2019m sorry but as a socialist, this is not work. Look at any country where it\u2019s legalised. In Amsterdam, the vast majority of sex workers are migrant women from deeply disadvantaged backgrounds. That\u2019s a structural context. The vast majority of men buying them are white privileged men. Pro-sex advocates never speak about men\u2019s right to buy, why not? Why isn\u2019t it expressed in that way?<\/p>\n \u201cIf it\u2019s a real right, let\u2019s talk about men\u2019s rights to buy women or young boys. That\u2019s exploitation. I feel really passionately about this. I\u2019ve had this argument with many comrades on the left and those on the right. People miss that broader, social and economic context.\u201d<\/p>\n SUITCASES AND THE KIDS<\/strong><\/p>\n Many groups, including the World Health Organisation and Amnesty<\/a> International, as well as the Sex Work Research Hub (made up of over 150 academics across a range of universities and disciplines focusing on sex work and sexual exploitation) disagree, calling for the total decriminalisation of the trade, and criticising the Nordic Model. In 2020, the Guardian<\/a>\u00a0published a report\u00a0on the experiences of sex workers in New Zealand, outlining their access to emergency wage subsidies and other State benefits.\u00a0Sex workers in Ireland say that the rule that they cannot work in pairs or more has made them less safe.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019ve seen all these arguments and have done a lot of research,\u201d Bacik replies. \u201cWe travelled to Sweden where the model originated and spoke with police officers, social workers and those in the sex trade there. First of all, I absolutely agree that \u2018prostitution\u2019 is a word that carries a loaded baggage, but so does the phrase \u2018sex worker\u2019 for many survivors. People like Mia Doring, Mia de Faoite and June Levine changed my mind about the reality of selling sex. It\u2019s the most brutal experience, as those who\u2019ve left it will tell you. On the New Zealand model, I see some with a rose-tinted view. The point I\u2019m making is how massively the trade grows and how extensive the exploitation becomes because it\u2019s very hard to meet the demand once it\u2019s a legal trade.\u201d<\/p>\n How does Ivana feel that her brand of feminism is represented in the current D\u00e1il?<\/p>\n \u201cFirst of all, there are far too few women TDs. There\u2019s only 37 \u2013\u00a0less than one-quarter of all TDs. That always surprises people because the women who are in the D\u00e1il tend to be more visible than the men.\u00a0The\u00a0Seanad is 40% female, so it\u2019s much better. But\u00a0I\u2019ve always wanted to try to get more women elected to the D\u00e1il.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cWomen clearly have very different views of feminism, depending on their own political allegiances and so on. There\u2019s no one brand of feminism in the Oireachtas. There\u2019s a very wide divergence of political views among us, including on feminist or gender issues.\u00a0But obviously I would like to see more socialist and feminist women.<\/p>\n \u201cIn terms of feminism and generational change, feminism is always evolving. That\u2019s what\u2019s exciting about it. I taught feminist criminology in Trinity and feminist theories of law before that. It\u2019s always evolving. My mother\u2019s strong brand of feminism informed all of ours growing up. She would tell you that as soon as there was any fight for rights, there\u2019s a backlash. Change is constant.\u201d<\/p>\n It\u2019s clear that the Labour leader\u2019s family history has had a major influence on her life-path, with her Czech grandfather Charles Bacik coming to Waterford as a political refugee in 1946.<\/p>\n \u201cHe ran a glass factory near Prague before the Second World War, was later involved in the Czech resistance and was imprisoned by the Nazis for some years,\u201d she recounts. \u201cHe was released but there was this shameful period in Czech history where the incoming Communist administration imprisoned\u00a0those who fought with the resistance,\u00a0alongside\u00a0Nazi collaborators. A lot of the Czechs flew with the RAF and fought with the British army against Nazis. Then they went back to their liberated homeland to discover the Soviets were locking them up when they came in.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cGrandpa could see that was happening. Also, as a former factory owner, he wouldn\u2019t have been in favour with the incoming regime. He came to Ireland with just suitcases and the kids, including my dad,\u201d Ivana explains. <\/p>\n \u201cWaterford Crystal had been established in the 18th century, but was closed down for many years. Grandpa revived the brand and set up a very small factory. He was then bought out by a wealthy Irish family called the McGraths and worked as a manager instead.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cHe was written out of the history for years until John Hearne researched Grandpa\u2019s role. In the \u201880s and \u201890s, he was the biggest employer in Waterford. It was a matter of huge, huge, huge sorrow to the people there that the factory closed down. It was devastating, but that was long after my Grandpa\u2019s retirement and death.\u201d<\/p>\n BUILD ALLIANCES AND DELIVER CHANGE<\/strong><\/p>\n As\u00a0child of a\u00a0family that migrated from Eastern Europe, does Bacik regard the Irish government\u2019s response to Russia\u2019s appalling war in Ukraine<\/a> as sufficient? While sanctions have been issued and four diplomats expelled, there is currently \u20ac34 billion held by opaque Russian-linked shell companies registered at the IFSC in Dublin.<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019ve commended the Taoiseach for many of the actions himself and the government have taken. I believe in constructive politics, not just criticism for the sake of it,\u201d Bacik informs me. \u201cIreland has been exemplary in welcoming refugees. More than 20,000 people have come so far and there\u2019s been an amazing response. I visited our local Ukraine support centre, and it was incredible to see officials from so many government departments volunteering to support refugees. I\u2019ve met many of them who have arrived with only a change of clothes and nothing more. It\u2019s absolutely shocking to see the devastation Russia has caused. The solidarity we have shown in terms of humanitarian welcome has been really positive.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cHowever, at EU level and Security Council level we could do more [Since this interview took place, Russia has been suspended<\/a> from the UN Human Rights Council by a vote of the UN General Assembly]. It\u2019s good to see that we, along with a small group of other states, have called for the accession of Ukraine to the European Union. It\u2019s good that we are assisting in non-military ways by giving aid, but we need to expel Russian ambassador Yuri Filotov.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cI stood outside the Saudi embassy on Saturday and spoke at an anti-war demo there for Yemen, because I think we need to be as vocal about Saudi Arabia\u2019s violence. I was on the Foreign Affairs Committee when the war in Syria was raging \u2013 a proxy war that Putin was waging through Assad. The Siege of Aleppo had the same hideous tactics he\u2019s now using in Mariupol. A lot of people on the left\u00a0in Ireland\u00a0wouldn\u2019t call out Putin over that. It\u2019s shameful, really. I suppose my own family history means I see Russia for the bullying, aggressive force it is and became further under Putin. He\u2019s an utter dictator and it is very frightening to watch. He got away with what he did in Syria, so now he\u2019s doing it in Ukraine. He\u2019ll do it again if he is allowed.\u201d<\/p>\n Would Labour be interested in a left-leaning coalition after the next election?<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019ve always described myself as a socialist, a social democrat and as centre-left. That means that I stand for constructive politics, of seeking to deliver change by going into government. There are those further left than Labour who seem content to shout from the sidelines and certainly have no aspiration to be in government to deliver change.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cFor me, that\u2019s what being a progressive left or a constructive left is about. It\u2019s about working to deliver actual change to the taxation system for redistribution of wealth to help achieve economic and social equality. That\u2019s the purpose of politics. That\u2019s why I joined Labour. That\u2019s why I\u2019m still in Labour three decades later.<\/p>\n \u201cThere is a distinction between Labour and those on the far left. There is a commonality on the left where we share positions on some things. I like that approach to politics. In the same way, I now look to work constructively with colleagues all across the board where there is a common purpose. The left has always been too factional, splintered and fragmented. Bringing people together is what I aim to do.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cLabour will be running in the next General Election as a standalone party,\u201d Bacik adds. \u201cIreland is unique in that we\u2019ve never had a social democrat majority government. Never. I want to build that. I\u2019ve always said that my ideal politics is a red-green alliance. I think it\u2019s environmental and economic equality where we need to focus on. Especially now, in the climate emergency. That\u2019s my dream, and I would work with colleagues from all parties to try to achieve it. If we just talk about who we go into government with, then we miss the point: you can also build alliances and deliver change on specific issues by building common ground.\u00a0<\/p>\n \u201cI got laws passed on a whole range of issues by working that way: on prohibition of female genital mutilation; on the right to conduct secular marriage ceremonies; and most recently to collect set minimum pay rates for freelance workers rights. The trade union movement are excited about that coming through.\u201d<\/p>\n THREATENED PHYSICALLY AND ASSAULTED<\/strong><\/p>\n Founded by Connolly and Larkin, Labour are the \u201cpolitical wing of the trade union movement\u201d – according to Bacik. Does Ivana worry about Sinn F\u00e9in gaining ground in this area?<\/p>\n \u201cWe\u2019ve always had to fight for every vote, every bit of support. Now more than ever, there\u2019s really strong space for Labour voices to come through because no other party has the strong connections to the trade union movement that we have, historically and currently. No other party on the left has the network we have on the ground level. There have always been other parties who voters gravitate between. To me, Sinn F\u00e9in has taken a lot of the vote that went to Fianna F\u00e1il.\u201d<\/p>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/media.hotpress.com\/uploads\/2022\/04\/20091411\/IvanaSUDays.jpg\")
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Ashling Murphy vigil at the Leinster House, Dublin. Friday 14th of January 2022. Copyright Miguel Ruiz.<\/div>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/media.hotpress.com\/uploads\/2022\/04\/20091516\/Ivana-Bacik-by-Miguel-Ruiz-18.jpg\")
Ivana Bacik. Copyright Miguel Ruiz.<\/div>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/media.hotpress.com\/uploads\/2022\/02\/17125257\/national-maternity-hospital-1.jpeg\")
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Women for Michael D. Higgins to return as President Of Ireland reception held in Solomon Gallery in Dublin. Pic shows from left Nora Casey , Frances Fitzgerald , Ailbhe Smyth , Denise Charlton and Ivana Bacik at a reception for Women who support Michael D. Higgins held in the Solomon Gallery in Dublin. Pic Maxwell’s<\/div>\n![\"\"](\"https:\/\/media.hotpress.com\/uploads\/2022\/04\/20091734\/Ivana-Bacik-by-Miguel-Ruiz-4-1-e1650442669711.jpg\")
Ivana Bacik. Copyright Miguel Ruiz.<\/div>\n